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schaches
Posted: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 10:29:17 AM
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Joined: 2/2/2009
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Location: Deerfield/Illinois
I am a middle school administrator attempting to put together a job description for a spring posting. The last time we posted for our industrial arts position was during the Nixon administration. Our school facilities (and philosophy) are designed to accommodate a program that leans toward hand tools and wood--not technology. Does anyone have any thoughts on skills/certification that we should be looking for? Also does anyone know of any Universities that graduate students with these skills? I would appreciate any advice.

Steve Schacherer

schaches@winnetka36.org
Mike Walsh
Posted: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 10:43:09 AM
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Joined: 9/13/2006
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Location: Allegan MI
ISU, Northern IL, Ball State, Central Michigan, U of No Iowa, Stout, Bowling Green Ohio, have programs near you. Most are heavy TechEd but the faculty may be able to help you.

Edit your post to add your email. (the reply button does not work ) There are often job seekers on this site.
craigp
Posted: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 2:28:21 PM
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Joined: 2/6/2008
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Location: Chesapeake City, Maryland
I graduated from Ball State Spring 2006. They are heavy on the Tech Ed. Luckily I had a strong enough background that I was able to jump into a traditional Industrial Arts program. I would look at Fort Hayes, and also the University of Wyoming at Casper.

Craig R. Patterson, CD
PLTW Teacher
Elkton High School
Elkton, Maryland
klandin
Posted: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 3:55:59 PM
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Joined: 6/1/2006
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Location: Connecticut
Certification requirements will of course vary from state to state, but I suspect that for legal reasons you probably need to have someone with a Technology Education certificate (formerly known as Industrial Arts, and before that Manual Training). Sadly, I don't know of any colleges offering a Technology Education degree whose current woodworking program is worth a damn. My Alma Mater is SUNY Oswego and even twenty years ago, when I was there, their woodworking program lacked the depth that I had hoped for. What you need is a Technology Education certified teacher whose other life experiences include a strong background in woodworking. Fortunately for you there are a lot of us out there, but you will need to be very clear in your job postings that you are looking for more than just another generic Tech Ed teacher. If I were doing it I would advertise for a "woodshop teacher" and drop the Tech Ed label entirely. I know that I finally found my dream job only after I stopped searching under Tech Ed, and started looking for "woodshop" in the job title.

Keith Landin
Woodshop instructor, Woodstock Academy
"Mens tua sit implementum acerrium in fabrica"
mrb1977
Posted: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 6:30:00 AM
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Joined: 3/5/2007
Posts: 0
Location: Albany, ny
klandin wrote:
Certification requirements will of course vary from state to state, but I suspect that for legal reasons you probably need to have someone with a Technology Education certificate (formerly known as Industrial Arts, and before that Manual Training). Sadly, I don't know of any colleges offering a Technology Education degree whose current woodworking program is worth a damn. My Alma Mater is SUNY Oswego and even twenty years ago, when I was there, their woodworking program lacked the depth that I had hoped for. What you need is a Technology Education certified teacher whose other life experiences include a strong background in woodworking. Fortunately for you there are a lot of us out there, but you will need to be very clear in your job postings that you are looking for more than just another generic Tech Ed teacher. If I were doing it I would advertise for a "woodshop teacher" and drop the Tech Ed label entirely. I know that I finally found my dream job only after I stopped searching under Tech Ed, and started looking for "woodshop" in the job title.


Keith, I am a SUNY Oswego grad also. I went to through the Vocational Education program where I transferred my degree in Construction from SUNY Delhi. So the Tech Ed. label seems to be king in NY State.
Mr.B
axle5
Posted: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 10:20:12 AM
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Joined: 3/13/2007
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Location: Pa
I'll second that. I'm a Technology Education teacher (5 years now) but I also run my own cabinet shop where I make Kitchen Cabinets (etc) and Trim. It is amazing the kids I mentor (student teachers) that dont have the knowledge of woodworking b/c the college levels don't include this luxary into their curriculum.

Jason
"Four years for a piece of paper" - I think this topic shows the powerful meaning behind this qoute.
klandin
Posted: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 4:15:45 PM
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Joined: 6/1/2006
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Location: Connecticut
Just a quick clarification, lest I was misunderstood. I was not bashing Oswego, or the fine education that I received there. In fact I hold Oswego's wonderful faculty, and the education that I received at their hands in nothing but the highest regard. For example the program at the Connecticut college where I did my graduate work absolutely pails by comparison. All that I meant was that as good as Oswego's Tech Ed program was, it still didn't provide me with anything more than the most fundamental knowledge about woodworking. And from what I've seen when I've gone back the program has only gotten weaker over the years. Again it is not my intention to bash anyone here. I'm sure that many of these folks are very fine teachers, but I've been appalled by the complete lack of background in ANY of the manual arts shown by the newly minted Tech Ed teachers that I've met.

Keith Landin
Woodshop instructor, Woodstock Academy
"Mens tua sit implementum acerrium in fabrica"
mrb1977
Posted: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 4:43:43 PM
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Joined: 3/5/2007
Posts: 0
Location: Albany, ny
klandin wrote:
Just a quick clarification, lest I was misunderstood. I was not bashing Oswego, or the fine education that I received there. In fact I hold Oswego's wonderful faculty, and the education that I received at their hands in nothing but the highest regard. For example the program at the Connecticut college where I did my graduate work absolutely pails by comparison. All that I meant was that as good as Oswego's Tech Ed program was, it still didn't provide me with anything more than the most fundamental knowledge about woodworking. And from what I've seen when I've gone back the program has only gotten weaker over the years. Again it is not my intention to bash anyone here. I'm sure that many of these folks are very fine teachers, but I've been appalled by the complete lack of background in ANY of the manual arts shown by the newly minted Tech Ed teachers that I've met.


Keith, I was noting your observation of the Tech. Ed program. I agree with you on the point you were making about the lack of wood working being taught at Oswego within the Tech. Ed department. I had the the construction background from a two year technical college and transferred into the Vocational preparation program which prepared me much more on the Lab up, curriculum development, and pedagogical side of teaching. I work with two recent grads from the program, and without their personal background in wood working, they would be lost within the curriculum. Have you been back to the Campus since they built the new student center? Very nicely done. Mr.B
klandin
Posted: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 4:59:39 PM
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Joined: 6/1/2006
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Location: Connecticut
No I have not, but I was just reading about it in the alumni news letter that I recieved in the mail yesterday.

Could we have crossed paths? I used to live in Schenectady.

Keith Landin
Woodshop instructor, Woodstock Academy
"Mens tua sit implementum acerrium in fabrica"
Joe Barry
Posted: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 5:03:42 PM
Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member, Moderator

Joined: 6/1/2006
Posts: 0
Location: Randolph,Vermont
When I went to Keene State College(NH) in 1977-80 they were strong on machine processes. I had to learn to use hand tools elsewhere - at The Apprenticeshop. And despite taking what was considered an "overload" in woodworking, I was not really a competent woodworker until I spent a couple of years in the trade building cabinets and furniture. My biggest criticism of the tech ed model is that it is shallow and only skims the surface of the material. The teacher, at the very least,should have a depth of content knowledge and skill.
klandin
Posted: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 5:34:15 PM
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Joined: 6/1/2006
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Location: Connecticut
All of which just goes to show that you can never really learn to do anything except by doing it. I suspect that this can be said of most any descipline, that school can only teach you so much. Beyond that, the only way to get good at something is to go out and actually do it day in, and day out. That's how I learned most of what I know about both woodworking and teaching.

Keith Landin
Woodshop instructor, Woodstock Academy
"Mens tua sit implementum acerrium in fabrica"
Jacob Adams
Posted: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 6:30:31 PM
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Joined: 2/4/2009
Posts: 0
Location: Jefferson City/MO
New to the Forum, new to the job.

As a new teacher who got into woodworking only because my Dad (old shop teacher) taught me how (I went to school to be an Ag teacher, never wanting to teach Ag), I am soliciting any of your thoughts about how to remedy the problem. I would like to go back to school to get a doctorate in Tech Ed. to try and produce more teachers like you guys and others that I know.

How do we do this? How can I prove the point to these colleges that are closing programs to save money that this is a viable option and something that must be saved? I feel strongly that we should be recruiting more and more of us into the field because no one can do anything any more. Am I focusing on the wrong thing and trying to go back to school to accomplish a dream that will not exist in 5-10 years?

Help!!
mrb1977
Posted: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 7:13:48 PM
Rank: Newbie
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Joined: 3/5/2007
Posts: 0
Location: Albany, ny
Jacob, good for you and your initiative to save the kinesthetic learning environments within our schools. I agree, many individuals graduate from high school, and or college without the motivation to work with their hands to make a living. We need to start at the top to change this way of thinking. Hopefully our new president will see a value of "hands-on" education and limit the test-taking assessments.
Mr.B
mrb1977
Posted: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 7:15:15 PM
Rank: Newbie
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Joined: 3/5/2007
Posts: 0
Location: Albany, ny
klandin wrote:
No I have not, but I was just reading about it in the alumni news letter that I recieved in the mail yesterday.

Could we have crossed paths? I used to live in Schenectady.


Keith,
I just moved to the Albany area this year, did you work in the Schenectady school system? I teach at a school south of Albany, that is noted for using allot of snow days. Mr.B
Jack Grube
Posted: Thursday, February 05, 2009 5:33:30 PM
Rank: Advanced Member
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Joined: 12/28/2005
Posts: 0
Location: New Hampshire
Jacob:

I left the wood shop 1 1/2 years ago and accepted the Director of Career and Technical Education position at our school. I loved the wood shop but thought I could have a much greater impact on our programs as Director. It might be an easier certification given your background. I am amazed with the number of CTE Directors who don't have an IA background. We need more people who think like us in leadership roles.

Jack Grube
Pinkerton Academy
Derry, NH
Mike Walsh
Posted: Friday, February 06, 2009 1:12:40 PM
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Joined: 9/13/2006
Posts: 0
Location: Allegan MI
Jack

You have hit the biggest problem all Career Tech teachers have. A Vocational Director, who had been an Earth Science teacher the year before, asked me "I need a welding teacher - does he need to know anything special ?" (Ya mean -- like how to weld ?) In three years he demolished a strong program.

English teachers would never allow a Shop guy to direct their curriculum. But the superintendent's look at the Federally Funded Voc Dir slot as a perk they can pass to their buddies. We now have Voc Directors that shop for "programs that don't need a qualified teacher" and spend mega bucks to install chrome plated labs. They know so little about the subjects that they cannot evaluate the content, they just look for today's buzz words.

The Science, English and Math departments are the first in line to collect their VocEd / STEM grant monies - even though they are delivering eleventh graders who cannot read a ruler or their detention slips.

Unless we start getting some administrators that know the difference between TechEd and Ed Tech, woodworking and carpentry,... we will be fighting the same battles -- funding, burnout, liability, overcrowding, under qualified students,... or we will be gone.

Teachers used to rely on the University faculty and our experienced Voc Dir's to promote our programs and profession. Those guys are now academics, retiring or are busy protecting their own jobs. Now it is up to the classroom teachers to defend their turf.

I cannot encourage you guys enough to join a group like the NE Woodworking Teachers - and start YELLING with one voice for course standards, supervision, respect, ... - that fit your program. If you belong to an ACTE affiliate - start pushing them to establish administrative standards and state enforcement.

Sorry. Too preachy - I know !! You just hit a sore spot.
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